Thanks guys, I am glad I got the facts right. I had heard that Audrey Mock [Knorr Hyde] died recently and that she was a good and decent person.
But Knorr? Well, that is a different thread.
moggy lover
JoinedPosts by moggy lover
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9
NH Knorr and his marriage
by moggy lover ini have heard anecdotal evidence about the marriage of nh knorr to audrey monk [i think that was her name] and how it had never been consummated, in other words that it was a sham.
but does anyone know the facts about how this marriage ended?
did knorr engineer a divorce at some time, and if so, on what grounds?
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moggy lover
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NH Knorr and his marriage
by moggy lover ini have heard anecdotal evidence about the marriage of nh knorr to audrey monk [i think that was her name] and how it had never been consummated, in other words that it was a sham.
but does anyone know the facts about how this marriage ended?
did knorr engineer a divorce at some time, and if so, on what grounds?
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moggy lover
I have heard anecdotal evidence about the marriage of NH Knorr to Audrey Monk [I think that was her name] and how it had never been consummated, in other words that it was a sham. But does anyone know the facts about how this marriage ended?
Did Knorr engineer a divorce at some time, and if so, on what grounds? Was the marriage one that ended in separation, or did she suffer in silence and stay with him till his death?
I believe she married again but was Knorr alive at the time?
And finally, have any photos been published with the two together?
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2014 Pew Research on US Religion
by adjusted knowledge inthe pew survey i've been reading is quite lengthy, but filled with interesting information.
it really explains a lot of the social issues.
impact of little education, donation issues, the issues of women finding marriage partners.
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moggy lover
I believe there is a section on retention rates for those born in their various religions. The largest retention rate is found more in the Eastern Patriarchal religions such as the Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists. It is 95%.
Among the Christian denominations, the Catholics and Mormons have the highest retention rates, about 90% while the JWs compare very unfavourably. Their retention rate for those born in the religion is just 34%.
What I think is more alarming is the age fluctuation. Seven years ago, when the last report was published, 18% of the JWs were aged 18-30. This has dropped to 15% this time around.
At the same time however, the aged population within the movement has grown from 17% in 2007, to 23% in 2014. The Watchtower is slowly morphing into a religion of geriatrics.
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2015 March 17, BOE!
by Atlantis in2015 march 17, boe.
(this boe goes along with the march 15 boe concerning circuit overseer visits)... click the link below and then click the green download button.. .. http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/29sj8bh.
.. .. atlantis!.
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moggy lover
Great job, as always , pal.
Blessings
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Do you know any books written by Jehovah's Witnesses?
by paradisebeauty ini found once a list on the internet on novels about the new world written by jehovah's witnesses.
don't seam to find it anymore.
does any of you happen to know any novels about the new world?
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moggy lover
Visions of Glory
This is the autobiographical account of Barbara Grizutti Harrison [1934 - 2002] from her conversion to the Watchtower Faith at age nine, down to her time at Brooklyn Bethel and her eventual disillusionment with the movement.
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File Requested--2011 School For Congregation Elders Manual!
by Atlantis infile request!.
2011 school for congregation elders manual.. if you see an apple ad pop up just click the x.. and then click the green download button.. .. .
http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/o1imgaf.
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moggy lover
Thanks Atlantis. I finally got it!. I am not sure why, but neither of the links provided in the previous thread worked for me.
Cheers
Moggy
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Where is Charles Sinutko now?
by moggy lover indoes anyone have any news about charles sinutko, who give the infamous "stay alive till '75" talk?
forty years have passed since then, so is he still alive and still with the watchtower?
anyone heard anything?.
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moggy lover
Does anyone have any news about Charles Sinutko, who give the infamous "Stay alive till '75" talk? Forty years have passed since then, so is he still alive and still with the Watchtower?
Anyone heard anything?
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moggy lover
Statistics are always an important indication of the way the Watchtower organization portrays itself, especially given that the Leadership places so much emphasis on them. This year's stats reflect, more or less, the parameters established last year, with minor variations, given localized circumstances, appearing here and there.
The bottom line is that there is a growth, albeit modest, which might present a mild form of relief to the GB seeing that last year was a historic one, being one hundred years after the 1914 invisible installation of the Watchtower Jesus as a "king" of something or other.
There are several ways one can make sense of these numbers, and I propose the following four:
1. Growth, as was demonstrated last year, is inordinately top heavy, with just ten countries accounting for a whopping 67% of the recruits garnered though the Watchtower evangelistic impulse. This is s slight increase over last year, where the top ten accounted for 62% of this growth. But there are changes.
TOP TEN 2013 - [Figures in brackets represent the nearest thousand in increase]
1. Mexico [27.8]
2. USA [11.5]
3. Republic of Congo [11.3]
4. Brazil [10.9]
5. Nigeria [8.3]
6. Angola [7.3]
7. Philippines [6.9]
8. Columbia [5.1
9. Venezuela [4.6]
10. Ghana [4.3]
TOP TEN 2014
1. Mexico [25.4]
2. USA [18.8]
3. Brazil [18.5]
4.Nigeria [9.1]
5. Angola [8.5]
6. Zambia [8.4]
7. Ghana [5.8]
8. Republic of Congo [5.6]
9. Venezuela [5.6]
10. Philippines [5.5]
The Congo Republic has slipped from number 3 to number 8 because of its reduced result, and Columbia has dropped out while Zambia has replaced it. Last year the top ten accounted for 98, 418 recruits, while this year the number is 111, 714.
2. Another way of looking at this top heavy listing is to observe that just one country, Mexico, has made more recruits than 19 other countries, many of them quite substantial in the Watchtower stable. Mexico has made more converts than the following nations combined:
Mozambique, France, Madagascar, Britain, Zimbabwe, Argentina, Italy, Guatemala Rwanda, Nicaragua, Russia, Cameroon, Bolivia, Honduras, Indonesia, Australia, Dominica, Kenya, and Chile. [Countries listed as 17 through 35]
3. With the loss of the Congo Republic from the Top Ten, the number of countries returning a 5 figure increase has been reduced from 4 to 3. Countries returning a 4 figure increase have been reduced from 27 last year to 24 this year.
4. Whereas the top 10 account for 67% growth, the bottom 106 nations [listed as numbers 133 to 239, including the 30 "other" lands] provide for less than a 1% percent increase, leaving one to question the efficacy of the Watchtower evangelistic output in these countries. They seem to exist purely for a bureaucratic compulsion to suggest some sort of widely dispersed penetration of the world.
Cheers.
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suggestions from Crisis of conscience
by monis1 inmy husband is inactive, but still very much believes in the borg as having the truth.
i now have coc in spanish.
i am currently reading it, but i would love to know if anyone can point me to any specifics.
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moggy lover
The book "Crisis of Conscience" can be read on three levels, and although these levels are never far apart, the prose dictates that we keep these narrative arcs separate in order to get the best from this volume.
First we have a largely autobiographical thread that runs throughout the book. Ray Franz's early beginnings in the WTS, his service as a missionary in the Caribbean, his call to work at Bethel HQ, and his subsequent participation in the higher echelons of WT management. Then follows, for reasons embedded in the other levels, the reason for his leaving the WTS and his ultimate sacrifice, that of expulsion from the movement.
Second, Franz tells of a hidden, and silent conflict that took place in the leadership circles of the WT at this crucial time in WT history, and which went unreported to the Rank and File. It starts innocently enough when WT President Nathan Knorr requested Franz, along with three others, Ed Dunlap, Reinhard Lengtat, and John Wischuk, to compile a sort of WT theological encyclopedia that would explain in simple terms what the WT said the Bible said. That is, how the instrumentality of the Bible was interpreted by the WTS. This eventually became the "Aid to Bible Understanding " book. The book went on explain subject by subject, like most other Evangelical Bible Dictionaries, various aspects of biblical theology and how the WT treated them.
While researching the subject of church governance, Franz discovered an anomaly between what the Bible said and how the WT was organized. Hitherto, the WT was organized around single individuals, from a President who centred all authority in his own hands, and who, through patronage, parceled out this authority to other individuals, from Branch Managers down to Congregation leaders. Franz discovered that the NT pattern was for a multiplicity of leaders in these various offices, and that the privilege of patronage was collective and not an individual one.
Both Knorr and Fred Franz, at that time the Vice-President, and Ray's uncle, approved of this feature in the Aid book, and promptly on publication it was announced, that starting in 1971, a new governing arrangement was to be implemented, which was the multiple leaders arrangement, to be called "The Elder procedure". By the end of 1971, the entire body politic of the WT was effected and everywhere from the branch level to the congregation level, multiple leaders were installed.
There was one exception, however.
At Bethel HQ, the Individual Leadership was still in practice, with Knorr firmly at the helm and unwilling to permit or encourage any alteration. Thus began a struggle within the inner circle of the WT, as a group of men called the Board of Directors, and who hitherto had acted merely as decorative impedimenta under Knorr, realized that they should have real power within the Leadership. This grim conflict between Knorr and the Board of Directors was never without acrimony, but they finally won and the so-called Governing Body was established, and Knorr, who was now ailing, was relegated to a side role. Franz reveals his own disappointment with this new arrangement when the WT was now reduced to being controlled not by single despot, but by a group of men who collectively acted as a single despot. His discomfiture was noted and he was eased out of authority and subsequently fired.
On a third level, Franz reveals much of his own horror when he discovered some of the more intemperate statements that the WT writers made about the End of the World as we know it, the unscriptural legalism that governed WT thinking, and the scandal of Malawi that was successfully covered up. Chapters 7-10 are revelatory on these subjects.
One gets the impression that Franz was a sensitive man who, despite supporting much of WT theology on subjects such as the Trinity and the Afterlife, and who had no animosity toward his other GB members, was not afraid to speak out about abuses of power, as he saw it. On the whole the book is an absorbing read, and provides us with a vital understanding of how the most important change in WT history, came to be.
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Revelation written to the 1st century churches
by maccauk11 inim suggesting revelation was not for us today but to the seven churches in minor asia.
they 1st centruy faithful ones were waiting for the promised return of messiah, like he promised them.
he did in fact return on the lcouds to take them to heaven.
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moggy lover
It obviously WAS written for those early readers since, as you propose, the metrical devices used within that genre of literature was primarily applicable to those who best understood it.
The problem comes when one becomes dogmatically involved in insisting on exclusivity. Whether Revelation was written EXCLUSIVELY for them is moot, and has been debated for centuries by readers much later than the original recipients. The book "Revelation - Four Views" written by spealists in their own interpretive fields, allows for these four views:
1. Preterist: where fulfillment is seen within the milleu of the Roman Empire.
2. Historical :where fulfillment is viewed as having occurred throughout history.
3. Dispensationalist: which interprets the section of Revelation chapter 6 onwards as being in the future.
4. Metaphorical: Where the book is treated as a mass of apocalyptic dreams aand visions having several contradictory and unimaginable applications.
All these forms of interpretation with their contextual applications can be sucessfully defended and the believer such as the biblical perspective allows for, must decide for himself/herself what line of prophetic significance to follow.
The one totally ILLEGTIMATE application is that of Realised Prophecy which sees the fulfilment of Revelation in a given set of present day circumstances. Herbert W Armstrong and the collective Watchtower Leadership are prime examples of this folly. For the Watchtower Leadership their view is that they are the centre of the Theological Universe so ALL fulfillment must revolve around them exclusively.
Using 1914 as their base line time element, they have, throughout their history, been straining a meaning out of the text of Revelation that is patently absurd, and thus they frame themselves in a spotlight that only diehard Watchtower Followers can admire.
It is for this reason, that when a current prophetic time element becomes untenable, other sources of fullfilment have to be plundered in the name of "new light". What Russell, then later Rutherford, and even later Freddy Franz, conceived Revelation to be has largely been swallowed up by the dustbin of history.